New ZR4 laser jammer on Escort Radar sight

[IRCMUSA]

Originally Posted by alpinestars_2002795

All i know is that this LED based jammer is most likely in violation of blinder's jammer patent that they maintain on LED based jammers in the USA, so we'll see how that works out. Not to mention sure seems like Roy was getting punchthroughs on his stalker LZ1 to me. So i would be cautious before i jump on the zr4 bandwagon.



AlPiNe~

Has anyone actually read that patent? I have and it’s an absolute joke.
Its a very vague statement that basically says if it Jams and has Logic that is their patent.
Im sorry but the military has had this design for years before the blinder ever came out. It will never hold up in court and even if they HAD a case do you think it would be wise to take it to court. Cough cough yes you honor we build systems designed to jam police laser yea that would go over well and a Federal law would be made that day to ban them (good thing i have a parking sensor) any way Radar Roy is endorsing it Laser Detector - Laser Shifter ZR4™ Laser Defense System Reviews - Escort Inc.

[Roadghost]

The concept of having an all-in-one sattelite tracking remote stealth system is a great leap forward for all of us. We should be happy that Escort has once again championed the cause against extortionate highway tax collectors with the 9500ci. Who else has invested so much time and money into such revolutionary detectors?

Even if the Z4 only jams to 300ft it is still a useful jammer and it comes from a reliable manufacturer that backs their product. I will wait to see some of the road tests people do in the next few weeks. I hope the thing sells in record numbers.

[RadarNutt]

Originally Posted by Roadghost

The concept of having an all-in-one sattelite tracking remote stealth system is a great leap forward for all of us. We should be happy that Escort has once again championed the cause against extortionate highway tax collectors with the 9500ci. Who else has invested so much time and money into such revolutionary detectors?

Even if the Z4 only jams to 300ft it is still a useful jammer and it comes from a reliable manufacturer that backs their product. I will wait to see some of the road tests people do in the next few weeks. I hope the thing sells in record numbers.

I agree with your statements in principle.

What we all have to keep in mind is any published test (e.g. jams to 300 feet or whatever) is ONLY pertinent to that particular vehicle. What we need is someone to test multiple products on the same vehicle. That is the only way to get a clear idea of something's effectiveness.

I for one also want to see more tests like Radar Review Admin's event last month. It avoids problems like the shenanigans with GOL. Not all of them their fault, but anytime you have a big bunch of hoopla around a group and testing event like that, you open yourselves to tainting by the manufacturers of the products you are testing. This was a problem for GOL because they did not treat each product fairly. Especially regarding the LI. You can see on their website even they mention how the LI rep and an engineer were on site during the test, how they provided a prototype, and how they "tweaked" the product to improve performance during at least one test run. What the hell is that BS??

And how can anyone tout how great the LI is because of that bogus test? I bet if they allowed every manufacturer to do that, we'd have seen spectacular test results for many products there. Just turn off all the IR filtering on your device, crank up the jamming power and voila! I'm sure that is what happened with LI.

Now, you know what happens when you do that? If you did that on a real product, you'd have false alarms every 15 minutes and you'd burn out the power supply and/or diodes very quickly. But it looks great for a 1-2 day test where you don't have to worry about that.

What we need are tests by ordinary average folks with real retail products, on multiple vehicles - like their own personal vehicles. And ideally, if those people can/will test multiple products on their own vehicle. Why? Because some vehicles are inherently easier or more difficult to get a reading on. It's not an exact science, as much as we'd all like it to be. It requires testing, testing, testing.

And equally important is correct usage of each device... correct placement and thoughtful planning for each device on each test vehicle. These tests cannot be rushed in the interest of getting X devices tested within a day, etc. It takes time. You have to mount each one carefully and thoughtfully, as if it was going on your car and might need to save your arse. Not slapped on the front bumper to a test mule with double sided tape. WTF???

While people are testing their device, they should move it around. Can they improve the performance by moving the heads? In many cases this helps. Again, you need lots of testing. And you need to be willing to experiment and try new placement ideas. How do you know how well your heads are placed without testing? You don't. Sure it is better than nothing, but again you've got to think it through and experiment. How good of performance can you squeeze out from each product? That's the question.

I'll withhold judgment on the ZR4 until I see several members' vehicles outfitted with the ZR4 and tested with LIDAR guns, and we see how long term reliability and performance hold out. Then we will see how well it performs. I don't believe any single review about anything, from anyone. Radar Roy has his own agenda, just like everyone else. If he sells them, what do you think he's going to say? That they suck?? Duh.

For my money, I shall stick with laser diode based products. No matter what, you cannot beat their performance with an LED device. And reception from a laser diode unit such as LPP - which uses a real lens and not IR receiving diodes that cost 35 cents each retail at Radio Shack.

Not to mention small and discrete (only possible with laser diode devices). Couple all that with good quality materials and solid reliability, and that is my idea of a good product. Sure the laser diode devices are more expensive, but that is not as important as having something which works and works very well every time.

I know people who have been nailed with LED based devices at 600, 700 feet. How much cheaper is their LED based jammer after they have paid those tickets on top of the price of their jammer? They should have paid the extra $ in the first place and bought a laser diode one. If you prevent even one BS ticket and the points, insurance fees, fines, etc. then it's worth an extra few hundred dollars to me up front. Not to mention my time that I'm not spending being forced to be lectured to about something 95% of the population does on a regular basis.

Regardless of the brand, etc. ZR4 is still LED based and all LED based jammers are cheap. Period. Shop around Radio Shack sometime and see what the retail prices are on LEDs.

That's all just my opinion. I certainly understand the view of folks who want to spend less and don't mind a solution that is not-so-stealthy / discrete. The real proof in the pudding will be when the manufacturers up the ante with the next generation of LIDAR guns. They are coming. Keep an eye on the Laser Atlanta - it is the most advanced of all the guns used in the U.S., and it is a b*tch to jam - by any product.

[CJR238]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

ZR4. For sure.

x2, my question is: is there any difference in its abilities when used independent or with the ci.

[RadarReviews_Net]

I agree, each vehicle the results are different.... for example a corvette vs. an F150 pickup truck.... or even something as close as a toyota celica vs. a honda civic... it all depends on the shape of the vehicle, etc. Also placement of the heads...very HUGE factor..also how much chrome is on one vehicle vs. the other one....does it have a front license plate.... those are other factors to consider as well. Unless you can get great placement on your vehicle and test it to see what works...move your heads until you find the right spot...thats the way to tell

Originally Posted by RadarNutt

I agree with your statements in principle.

What we all have to keep in mind is any published test (e.g. jams to 300 feet or whatever) is ONLY pertinent to that particular vehicle. What we need is someone to test multiple products on the same vehicle. That is the only way to get a clear idea of something's effectiveness.

I for one also want to see more tests like Radar Review Admin's event last month. It avoids problems like the shenanigans with GOL. Not all of them their fault, but anytime you have a big bunch of hoopla around a group and testing event like that, you open yourselves to tainting by the manufacturers of the products you are testing. This was a problem for GOL because they did not treat each product fairly. Especially regarding the LI. You can see on their website even they mention how the LI rep and an engineer were on site during the test, how they provided a prototype, and how they "tweaked" the product to improve performance during at least one test run. What the hell is that BS??

And how can anyone tout how great the LI is because of that bogus test? I bet if they allowed every manufacturer to do that, we'd have seen spectacular test results for many products there. Just turn off all the IR filtering on your device, crank up the jamming power and voila! I'm sure that is what happened with LI.

Now, you know what happens when you do that? If you did that on a real product, you'd have false alarms every 15 minutes and you'd burn out the power supply and/or diodes very quickly. But it looks great for a 1-2 day test where you don't have to worry about that.

What we need are tests by ordinary average folks with real retail products, on multiple vehicles - like their own personal vehicles. And ideally, if those people can/will test multiple products on their own vehicle. Why? Because some vehicles are inherently easier or more difficult to get a reading on. It's not an exact science, as much as we'd all like it to be. It requires testing, testing, testing.

And equally important is correct usage of each device... correct placement and thoughtful planning for each device on each test vehicle. These tests cannot be rushed in the interest of getting X devices tested within a day, etc. It takes time. You have to mount each one carefully and thoughtfully, as if it was going on your car and might need to save your arse. Not slapped on the front bumper to a test mule with double sided tape. WTF???

While people are testing their device, they should move it around. Can they improve the performance by moving the heads? In many cases this helps. Again, you need lots of testing. And you need to be willing to experiment and try new placement ideas. How do you know how well your heads are placed without testing? You don't. Sure it is better than nothing, but again you've got to think it through and experiment. How good of performance can you squeeze out from each product? That's the question.

I'll withhold judgment on the ZR4 until I see several members' vehicles outfitted with the ZR4 and tested with LIDAR guns, and we see how long term reliability and performance hold out. Then we will see how well it performs. I don't believe any single review about anything, from anyone. Radar Roy has his own agenda, just like everyone else. If he sells them, what do you think he's going to say? That they suck?? Duh.

For my money, I shall stick with laser diode based products. No matter what, you cannot beat their performance with an LED device. And reception from a laser diode unit such as LPP - which uses a real lens and not IR receiving diodes that cost 35 cents each retail at Radio Shack.

Not to mention small and discrete (only possible with laser diode devices). Couple all that with good quality materials and solid reliability, and that is my idea of a good product. Sure the laser diode devices are more expensive, but that is not as important as having something which works and works very well every time.

I know people who have been nailed with LED based devices at 600, 700 feet. How much cheaper is their LED based jammer after they have paid those tickets on top of the price of their jammer? They should have paid the extra $ in the first place and bought a laser diode one. If you prevent even one BS ticket and the points, insurance fees, fines, etc. then it's worth an extra few hundred dollars to me up front. Not to mention my time that I'm not spending being forced to be lectured to about something 95% of the population does on a regular basis.

Regardless of the brand, etc. ZR4 is still LED based and all LED based jammers are cheap. Period. Shop around Radio Shack sometime and see what the retail prices are on LEDs.

That's all just my opinion. I certainly understand the view of folks who want to spend less and don't mind a solution that is not-so-stealthy / discrete. The real proof in the pudding will be when the manufacturers up the ante with the next generation of LIDAR guns. They are coming. Keep an eye on the Laser Atlanta - it is the most advanced of all the guns used in the U.S., and it is a b*tch to jam - by any product.

['09 Milan]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

ZR4. For sure.

THANK YOU TSi+WRX

Other than the incredibly idiotic place where BEL has located the power button, the 9500ci looks like it's a state of the art unit and sets a new standard. I'll wait until after the June CES show is over to see if they (BEL) tweaks the unit or introduces any other new units, but so far this looks like the one to get Used with Veil it should be a winning system to have.

BTW- just noticed that you're in the Cleveland area and thought you should know that they (northern Ohio) is switching over to using both Ka and laser more than any other area in the country, so it will be especially important for you to get a good unit like this. Make sure it's mounted absolutely level, as being off a few degrees can effect the units performance more than anything else. I'm going to design a add on unit which will actually monitor the level of the unit at all times. Even something like changing tire pressure can have an effect on these sensitive units, so be careful

Originally Posted by CJR238

is there any difference in its abilities when used independent or with the ci

From what we've read the only 'advantage' would be a purely psychological one. Mounting the rear unit up front actually hurt performance, and adding two additional front units did not make the unit work better. I am going to call BEL/Escort today so that I can order their special wiring install kit and to verify all of this, but for right now getting the 9500ci by itself, or the ZR4 by itself, looks like the best way to go.

[CJR238]

As i side note with my experience with laser. I have had 3 encounters since laser guns were made. In all but 1 encounter i could see the LEO before he even lasered me. I live in CT where everyone seems to say its all Laser and found it to be the complete opposite.

I’m still skeptical about how important having a Laser Jammer is and weather its really worth it. The ZR4 is in the right dollar range for disposable income however Diode jammers are supposed to be better but cost more.

Looks like i will be wrestling with the Jammer idea a bit more.

['09 Milan]

Originally Posted by CJR238

In all but 1 encounter i could see the LEO before he even lasered me.

I think those days are coming to an end. My nephew is a cop and he said that more and more departments are being told to laser the rear of the car, instead of the front. The idea is two fold; first, even with a jammer it is a less protected area, and secondly, if you look at the back of most cars they are a much better target, meaning they are a wider-flatter surface and much easier to target than the front, which may be sloped. There is no doubt that a jammer is needed, the only question is which one is best for each individuals car. Just because one jammer works good on one car, does not mean that it will work the same on yours, so read the reviews with a grain of salt. Many reasons for this. The bottom line is that everyone needs to do a LOT of homework before deciding which unit to get.

[CJR238]

Originally Posted by '09 Milan

I think those days are coming to an end. My nephew is a cop and he said that more and more departments are being told to laser the rear of the car, instead of the front. The idea is two fold; first, even with a jammer it is a less protected area, and secondly, if you look at the back of most cars they are a much better target, meaning they are a wider-flatter surface and much easier to target than the front, which may be sloped. There is no doubt that a jammer is needed, the only question is which one is best for each individuals car. Just because one jammer works good on one car, does not mean that it will work the same on yours, so read the reviews with a grain of salt. Many reasons for this. The bottom line is that everyone needs to do a LOT of homework before deciding which unit to get.

I always hated homework.

Too bad using 2 ZR4's doesn’t make the jamming better, my friend can get them for cost.

['09 Milan]

Originally Posted by CJR238

Too bad using 2 ZR4's doesn’t make the jamming better

From what I understand that may only be a temporary situation